Welcome to the micro niche mastery podcast, where we help you establish yourself in the perfect micro niche. So you will get noticed and grow your business faster. And now your host. He is so busy coaching business owners on niching down and launching that he wants to do 20 sessions in one day, Ziv Raviv

Ziv:

Hello, and welcome to the Micro niche mastery podcast. I’m so excited to have here with me, a serial entrepreneur and really amazing guy, very supportive guy that helps other people in Micro niches to go to fly the author of the book, confusion mastery, and the keto have multiple trainings that help people not just go through automations and marketing and the smart usage of Infusionsoft, but also the through teaching copywriting. Even though I think you mentioned it, [inaudible] the official copy, like the type of copywriter, and yet other copywriters tend to appreciate your walk and learn from you and study your work. So I’m so excited to have you here with us, Lloyd. Hi, Troy. How are you?

Troy:

Thank you so much live. It’s really nice being here. And I thank you for inviting me on the show and yeah. You know, I would never use the word copywriter to describe myself. I’ve never written copy professionally for others. I only write for myself, but I have a lot of copywriters that have reached out and told me I got good copies. So, but I consider myself to be a story seller. And that’s the way I look at it is that I use stories and good storytelling principles and turn that into a selling principle, right? So I refer to it as story selling, and that is something that I’ve been a practitioner of for years. And as you know, on my list, you know, I send out at least one email a day, sometimes two or three, and it’s something that if you’re a good storyteller, you really don’t have to be a great copywriter.

And I think that’s one of the reasons that, you know, even the training I did on it, I called the contrarian copywriting course. Right? I did it as a contrarian because I think as a technologist that I am, a lot of people are fearful that if they’re not a professional copywriter, they can’t do a good job with this. And that’s just so ridiculous. I have seen numerous times where in different businesses that I’ve been a part of or joint ventures or managed in the past where we bring in a professional copywriter, pay him $50,000 for the sales letter and it just bombs. And the reason is that even though he’s a pro, he doesn’t have the relationship with the list and he doesn’t know how to talk with that audience in a way that resonates with them like somebody that’s writing daily emails. So I think that the tip of the iceberg with all of this is starting with daily email. If you work on that and get your repetitions up and get used to doing it and doing the story selling approach, then it’s going to naturally lend itself to deeper connections with your list and higher conversions on your sales. So then the copy kind of works itself out through the repetition and the practitioner approach of just doing the work on a daily basis.

Ziv:

One of the biggest questions we get about the topic of daily emails is like, what would you write about how can you find the topics to write about every single day to your list? What would you say to that?

Troy:

Oh, it is so easy. It’s so easy. You just have to switch gears and let me explain it this way we have right and left brain, right? We have this duality of how we think, and the problem that most people struggle with when they’re trying to write is they’re trying to think of what to write at the time that they’re trying to write. And that’s not what you want to do. Those are two discreetly different and separate topics. So what you want to get really good at is brainstorming ideas to write about. And that is the only thing you do in that time. All you do is jot down a bunch of ideas. And then when you go to write, you just look at that list and the one that jumps off the page for you, you know, the one that’s just easy, that’s the one you do.

And you know, when I first started writing daily emails, it would take me like 40 minutes to write an email because I was just, it was like pulling teeth to get through the process for me. Now I probably write them in seven minutes or less. They just go flying out the door and it doesn’t take any effort. It’s like second, I was just like breathing. It’s just normal, right? I mean, how hard is it to teach yourself the habit of brushing your teeth? You do it every day. It’s just what you do. Well, once it becomes habitual, once it becomes just part of who you are, then it’s really easy. And especially when you do a story selling type approach, because it’s just conversational. And if you just imagine talking to somebody in the backyard that you’re having a barbecue with and having that conversation and keeping it into a one-on-one tone, like, you know, not preaching at an audience, but just talking to one person and just telling them a story, that’s all it really takes.

So what I do is really simple, super, super simple. I have a ton of processes that I do, but they’re ultra ultra simplistic. And I just use my phone and I use the iPhone and I use a little notes app on the iPhone, and it has little tasks lists that you can create. And you can just create a little task on there. I have just this massive list of emails. And during the day, while I’m sitting in traffic, while I’m out at the bank, waiting in line, whatever, any downtime that I have, I’m writing down ideas for emails. And during a given day, I’ll jot down way more ideas than I write. And so then it becomes really easy, but you have to separate the process of idea generation from writing. And when you make that one single simple distinction, then everything just falls, falls in place for you. It really does.

Ziv:

I love it. And this is like the, the whole philosophy of creating a content plan is that you don’t wing it with content. You actually plan it. And even with the simplistic approach that you shared, which is just to have a list and continually brainstorming and expanding that list, it’s already way, way easier and sets you up for success. So I want to ask you about some productivity tips, because going down from 40 to seven minutes is, is a process that includes a lack of practice, but also your master in being productive. And you’ve been sharing some ideas about this in your course. And then in other programs, can you show us like what works for you these days, except for the planning and the brainstorming, what helps you walk in, in a productive way when it comes to email mark?

Troy:

Cool. So I’ve done it a few different ways and it just depends. I have a, some pretty severe neck damage. And so there are times during the year when I can’t be on the computer at all, might go a couple of weeks without getting in front of a computer screen. And so I’ve mastered the ability to dictate my email content as well, but it’s its own art form and it takes a lot of practice and people struggle with that when they first start doing it as well, because they just want to talk and record it and think that that’s what it is about. That’s not the way I do it. I audibly write if that makes any sense. I write out the sentences audibly. So it still has all the sentence structure. It’s not just like a conversation that I’m recording. I’m narrating the email, I’m writing it audibly.

And that way I have virtually no editing and I can just do it through the rev app and transcribe it and get it back, paste it in and go. The other thing that I’ve found that’s really, really productive for me is to have a super fast streamlined way of sending emails when you use complex systems. And a lot of the CRMs are very complex. Infusionsoft, Ontraport, HubSpot, active campaign, even a Weber is pretty simple. But when you look at how many steps it takes you to go through to actually send an email, it’s pretty absurd, right? And honestly, my partner and I are building an entire platform for this called [inaudible] mail that we’ll be launching in the next, you know, a little bit, depending on when you’re listening to this recording, but it may already be out depending on when you’re listening, but it’s coming very soon.

And it’s really focused on speed because when you are a producer of content, when you’re a writer and you’re writing daily emails, you want to be able to get them out quickly. And so do not get distracted by pretty formatting and images and all that crazy stuff. You’re on my list. You see, I don’t send images. I don’t do formatting. It’s just plain text and go. And a lot of people think that that’s unsexy and it’s unprofessional and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. The reality is it’s just the opposite. How do all of your friends write to you an email? When your friends send you an email, they don’t like format it properly and they don’t put images. They don’t worry about grammar and punctuation. It’s just a stream of consciousness and it’s quick and it’s fast. And that’s the way that I write. And it is an approach that honestly does make you stand out because when everybody else is trying to focus on pretty, you’re focusing on actually building a relationship with your readers by providing great content that they want to read. And if they want to read your content, it doesn’t matter how many pretty images or fonts you use or any of that crazy stuff. That’s all a distraction, right? If you’ve ever read a great novel, great fiction, once you’re in engaged in it, you just can’t put it down. And there’s no pretty images. There’s no pretty formatting and fonts. It’s just text on a page, but the text, the copy is drawing you in. And that’s why I really recommend people do that. It’s faster. And it creates more deep relationships with your readers.

Ziv:

 But what

If we don’t have like a good stories? How can we come up with this?

Troy:

Oh, everybody’s got stories. Everybody’s got stories. It’s a really simple process of just looking at things you see around you that are going on and just learning to ask better questions of yourself. I’m sitting here right now. And I know that this is just going to be an audio podcast, but I do everything for video. That’s the way I do. And as you see, I’ve got my uniform on. I call it my uniform, but it’s the same thing that I wear all the time. A black turtleneck I’m prepped. I’ve got multiple lights here, lighting this set. I’ve got a 4k camera video capturing everything with a $3,000 camera and a blurred background on this video, all of this for an audio interview, right? An audio interview. Why? Because I believe in this concept of managing the talent. And if I show up and I’m looking into this whole set, then that brings my a game.

That’s what helps me stay directed and focused. Right? So if I’m sitting here and I’m looking at these lights, I can tell you a whole story about why I spent $300 on the light and another $300 on a light stand for quality. And I can go into a whole thing about why you’re better off spending for high quality and how I have three other lights that I throw away that I wear like 75 to a hundred bucks, a piece that I’ve wasted more money buying cheap than had I bought high quality from the beginning. That’s a story, right? And you can just go into it. I can sit here and look at my camera and look at the quick connection on the Mount. Every one of my tripods and camera mounts, and I have a bunch of them. They all have the exact same Joby Mount on them that I use. Why that’s a story behind that. That’s a story about speed and efficiency and consistency. All of these things turn into something that you can talk about, and then you can connect it at the end, connected into your business, into your offer, make a little pivot and, and switch that around. But I could sit here and write you a hundred emails, just looking around the room right now. I see a story in every,

Ziv:

I want to talk.

About the segue that you described. So I like you can, you can literally like find the story in anything around you, in anything in your life and like analyze it, see the values, the decision-making, the backstory, the direction, the vision, everything. But, uh, you also segue into a sale and some people are afraid about selling.

Troy:

Yeah. Because they’re trying to sell, I don’t try to sell. I talk to you. I give you a story. I make a connection and then say, Hey, if you’re interested in more about this, go here. Like, I’m not doing a heavy sales pitch. You see that in my emails, if you’re pitching hard every day, you’re going to push people away. But if you’re just making a casual offer to go deeper in the conversation that you’ve opened up with them, it’s really easy, right? It’s a really easy transition. And you know, that’s exactly the way I do it. I wrote a, an email today and it was about, do you have to really worry about the content or the presentation, right? Because a lot of people will say, well, it’s all in the content, but if your presentation sucks, that’s not true. If this audio is distorted and nobody can hear it.

And I’ve got a fan kicking on in the background and you can’t hear my voice clearly, then the content might be great, but it’s not going to matter because the presentation screws it up. Right. And so I went on this whole discussion about content and presentation, and I gave examples of audio, et cetera. And then at the end, right at the end, I said, you know, and don’t make the Cardinal sin. The Cardinal sin is trying to make the presentation so perfect. You never get the content done. Right. And so what I talked about then was how I did just that and a former newsletter that I had and how I used to have a print newsletter that was color and like a magazine. And it got to be such a chore to make it so perfect that I stopped doing it. Right. And then what was the offer?

Well, by the way, today, I’m selling the back issues of that newsletter in PDF form. I don’t have the printed version anymore, but if you’d like to get the entire year, here’s where you go. And by the way, it’s, you know, $756 off today. Boom, simple, right? It’s like a whole lesson and it’s all teaching. But yet I knew that I was going to make an offer for the back issues of the PDFs. So my newsletter. And so I just related that story and turned it into a pain point. The more emotional pain points that you can get into your stories better because it’s going to resonate with people more. And the more you can do them in a self-deprecating way. So I wasn’t pound in my chest, look how good I am, look how good I was. Like, don’t make the mistake I made. Right? Like don’t. And so I’m falling on the sword. In my story, my story is self-deprecating and it’s painful. And that allows people to connect and resonate and feel like, Hey, this guy is, you know, he’s real. He makes mistakes too. He’s talking about him, he’s helping me out. Here’s some examples and that’s it. So I think that the people overthink that transition and they overthink having to sell. You really don’t have to sell. You just have to make an offer to continue working with you.

Ziv:

Tell me a little bit about what excites you these days in terms of your businesses.

Troy:

Oh man, it’s all about software for me. My partner, Ben settle. He calls me the software supremacist because everything I do is software. I run five different companies were, uh, just opened the bank account on one yesterday. And I love software. I look at it today as the new continuity model, right? Membership sites have been around for close to two decades at this point. Right? And what has happened is it’s just getting harder and harder and harder to do them. And the market is very mature around them, but tools, I love selling tools. Everybody wants tools and what’s beautiful about it is they’re so easy to sell. It’s so easy to sell software because when you’re selling information, you have to hold back, right? You gotta be careful about crossing that line. You want to talk about what you do, but you don’t want to show them how you do it because otherwise they’re not going to buy it, right?

So you have to, you have to really kind of dance this line, providing value, but not teaching, but when it comes to software, I can tell you everything. I can just roll up the sleeves, open book. You show you everything, teacher. It doesn’t matter because unless you buy the software, you’re not going to be able to do it. And so it’s a really kind of fun way to sell without really having to sell and the stick rates when you develop good software that people really want and need the retention is insane with it. So it allows you to month over month, build your business. So I love continuity income. I love membership. I love retention. I have my own monthly book subscription that I do my memoirs of mastery program, uh, where I do a six by nine, 150 page book every month that I write.

So I like a lot of different models, but continuity is king. And all of my businesses have continuity or multiple continuity programs in them. Because once I get a customer, I want to go deep with that customer. And I want to keep getting income from them. I don’t want to have to make the sale all the time. Right? It’s so much easier to sell to an existing customer. Don’t keep fighting to make that first sale and convert somebody on your list. I get that first sale. And then I focus on going deep, deep, deep in the relationship.

Ziv:

Well, tell me a little bit about what you do to help people in the online courses, Mako niche, like every course, it can be a later be launched in an, in a, my Cornish where people notice you, but what do you do in this arena?

Troy:

I’m really well-known for infusion soft. I was probably at the time, I’m not doing it now, but at the time I was probably the top two or three in the world with infusion soft. And that is a perfect example of a micro-niche right. It’s also a perfect example of a parasitic niche. A parasitic niche, a parasite is somebody is a little bug or creature that gets its life from a larger animal, right? So whales have all these parasites that attached to them. Well, if the whale wasn’t there, the parasites would die, right? And parasitic companies are great ways to get into micro niching, right? You can become an expert around a product or around a surface or a service that’s already out there. And well-known, and now you’re just kind of leveraging off of that, finding some things that you can do better and improve upon or consult or teach on in that area.

Troy:

And B form that peracetic, you know, micro-niche type business. Now. I love it because it’s always easier to be a big fish if you’re in a small pond and that’s, you know exactly what I did. You held it up earlier on before we kicked off the call with my book from Infusionsoft mastery. Right? Well, that is a great, great way to dominate a micro niche. And I’ve got to tell you, there is so much power in being the best-selling author in your micro niche. And if I were still in Infusionsoft, I know I’m not a part of it really anymore. And I don’t really do anything with it anymore. I do my own software platforms and actually building a competitive platform now. So I don’t really swim in those waters, shall we say anymore? But if I did, I would have a dozen books around Infusionsoft so that people would just be in Nam or with all of the content that I provide there.

And to give you an example, when the last infusion soft conference that I went to, they had, they used to have, they don’t have it anymore, but they used to have an annual conference called infusion con. And the last time I went there, they were listening to the CEO speak. And there was about, I don’t know, 3,500 people or so in the audience. And the CEO is speaking and he opens it up for questions. And two of the first three questions that were asked people, quoted my book and referenced it and said, such CEO, Triber Sarde said this and that. Yeah. What do you think about that? And I was like, wow, that’s, that’s pretty cool. It was neat to see, because when you dominate an individual niche, you kind of have this superstar status and it’s easy to attain that if you know what you’re doing, right.

And it’s just so much easier than competing. Now, if I had gone out and tried to do that same thing and something much larger like Salesforce, I wouldn’t have had a chance of elevating that quickly. It’s too big of an issue. It’s too big of a platform, right? But with something like Infusionsoft, I was able to go in there and carve out a spot for me and move to the top very, very fast. And that’s one of the advantages of micro niches, but to be Uber successful with the micro niche, you need to be strong, confident, bold, and you need to lead by example and you need to be prolific. You need to put a lot of content out there, you know, get a couple of books out there, whatever you need to do, but, but raise your status in that micro niche. And don’t ever believe people that  

One of my companies and this, I don’t own this company anymore, I sold out of it. But one of my companies, a few years ago, I had only 720 people on that list. And it was doing over 700,000 a year in revenue. So when people tell you all, I’ve got to have a 25,000 person list, and now I’ve got to have a 200,000 personally. That’s not true at all. If you know how to go deep in the relationship and you know how to offer larger ticket pricing, which is something that in micro niches is extremely effective, being a coach or consultant and a micro-niche where you can offer top tier pricing, man, I’m telling you the sky’s the limit. It’s just your ability to, to ask for it.

Zivi:

Where can people learn more about what you do these days?

Troy:

The best way is to just go to Troybroussard.com. It’s my last name is spelled kind of awkward. It’s B R O U S S a R D, but Troy broussard.com and just opt in there. My list I email every day, I can guarantee you that it’s business related marketing related content every single day. And I have so many different companies that I just funnel everything through my personal daily email. Otherwise that’d be writing five emails a day. I don’t have time for that. So the best way is just in my personal brand. Troy broussard.com,

Zivi:

How you keep it simple also with your daily emails, because a lot of people are considering, well, should I have one daily email for this segment? And one daily email for that segment? Can you just keep it simple? And everyone enjoys what you hide, even if they already bought something that you mentioned.

Troy:

Yeah. You know what really, that’s the best advice for anybody. Keep it as simple as possible. And people are all worried about the segmentation and customers versus non-customers. And what have you promote an offer that they’ve already seen before? Well, I do a couple of things. My offers are always increasing on a product. So if I sell it now at this price, when I saw it six months from now, it’ll be more expensive. So I never have to worry about somebody seeing a better price or something like that. So that is just cured. It’s eliminated by the nature of how I do the promotion. But the second thing is I sent out an email yesterday about a guy that bought one of my products. I was selling the product and he had already bought it. And he wrote me an email. He says, oh, thanks so much for reminding me.

I got to go back and go through that again. It was so great content. So when you’re selling a product, even if your list is already bought it, you’re still selling them. You’re selling them on consuming what they already bought, and you’re selling them on the concept that they’re a smart person because they already bought it. And I know that sounds silly, but people don’t like to be made to feel stupid and they like to feel smart. And so when you sell them something, they already bought it, reaffirms to them. Hey, I’m a pretty smart guy. I bought this, but now I need to go back and go through it again. Right? So that’s, you know, just a very simplistic approach. You don’t have to make this stuff complicated, just get out there and do it every day. And

Zivi:

There’s so much to discuss, uh, with you. You’re, you’re such a fountain of wisdom on, on copywriting and on welcome sequences and automation. I think that if you, uh, wrote a book about automation in general, instead of on Infusionsoft mastery, maybe we would not have this conversation right now, but you, you go multiple businesses by figuring out how to get noticed. And I really appreciate you taking the time and sharing this with us. What is one tip that you would give to yourself? If you could talk with younger Troy, What would that be?

Troy:

I would just say set aside fear and just do it. I wrote that book that you’re holding that book has made me over $327,000 at last count and not from the book sales, but from all of the backend sales that it created. And I sat there for a year after it was written before I ever published it, that probably cost me 75, $85,000, you know, just by not releasing it. So just get out there and do it. And you know what you said there about had I written a general book? It wouldn’t have been the same thing. Now I can write the general book. Okay. Because I prove myself in the Infusionsoft niche, I established myself there. I elevated to the top of that in the industry now to go out and write just a marketing automation book that is general. I have the street cred to pull that off. Right. But a lot of people start at the general first and it’s just not the way to go. Always dominate a niche first and then go wider, go deep before you go wide.

Ziv:

Love it. Thank you so much. And we’ll put the link to your website. [inaudible] dot com in the show notes, in case someone is listening, you could go that there there’s so much to learn from your toy. Thank you so much again, I’ll see you online.

Troy:

Thank you. All right. Thank you. I appreciate the invite. Take care.

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